У надувного медведЯ: несерьезное обсуждение трилогии "Хоббит"

[Riba]

Сообщение от арве

По аудикомментариям.

1. Нашла английский текст ко всем частям, как режиссерские, так и актерские, но в верде только БК.
2. Нашла переводы:
БК - режиссерские с 1 по 6 части, актерские - все.
ДК - режиссерские все, актерскиих переведенных нет.
ВК - только английские (позже нашала кусочек переводов актерских комментов, сделанных нашим Бильбо еще в 2009 году).
3. Нашла в архивах ХА - была в проектах века такая тема. Давно. Начало - еще в 2005. Но последняя страничка - реанимировала сайтв 2014. Там и мои посты есть, оказывается . И я уже по просьбе TheHutt ему все найденные страницы переправляла. Правда - получил ли он их - неизвестно. Во всяком случае на этой переправке тема и заглохла. Он тоже ссыль постил на... Короче - чего теперь? Туда лезть-реанимировать? Новый создавать?

Вот это да, Арве! Вот это работа!
Мне кажется, реанимировать - хлопотно, раз оно уже в архивах. Может лучше новый?
Что высокое собрание решит?

[арве]

Про архивы - это я того этого... преувеличила. Не в архивах ХА, а в моих на компе...
А в Проектах века эта тема тихо мирно занимает 10 строчку (четыре - на наши переводы к Аннотациям саундов, остальное - другие проекты и десятку почетно замыкают заглохшие Аудикомментарии) ...

[Riba]

Сообщение от арве

Про архивы - это я того этого... преувеличила. Не в архивах ХА, а в моих на компе...
А в Проектах века эта тема тихо мирно занимает 10 строчку (четыре - на наши переводы к Аннотациям саундов, остальное - другие проекты и десятку почетно замыкают заглохшие Аудикомментарии) ...

*вспомнила свои залежи всего подряд* Это ещё круче.
Ну, если сам тред не в архиве - в принципе, можно и попытаться реанимировать. На свой страх и риск. Лишь бы потом оттуда всё снова в МедведЯ не слили.

[арве]

Так как его реанимировать-то? Он же задумывался, как работа над переводом оных. А я-то - ни разу переводить не буду. Это если мы все решим это перевести - тогда в Проекты века. А если выкладывать - то английский, то осколки русского и то, что выложу - нам комментировать, то... имхо, бред получается... хоть для ПВ, хоть для СМ

[Riba]

Сообщение от арве

Так как его реанимировать-то? Он же задумывался, как работа над переводом оных. А я-то - ни разу переводить не буду. Это если мы все решим это перевести - тогда в Проекты века. А если выкладывать - то английский, то осколки русского и то, что выложу - нам комментировать, то... имхо, бред получается... хоть для ПВ, хоть для СМ

Будем ждать кворум.

[Sange]

Сообщение от Riba

Если вам непонятно, это не значит, что никому не понятно,

но сакральным знаниям не делятся))) ибо его нет

и вообще это так специально придумано, чтоб было о чём подумать.

было бы над чем

Сообщение от арве

2. ВК - только английские (позже нашала кусочек переводов актерских комментов, сделанных нашим Бильбо еще в 2009 году).

теоретически в будущем я могла бы взяться если не за перевод целиком, то хотя выдержки самого интересного.

[Анхен]

Сообщение от арве

Так как его реанимировать-то? Он же задумывался, как работа над переводом оных. А я-то - ни разу переводить не буду. Это если мы все решим это перевести - тогда в Проекты века. А если выкладывать - то английский, то осколки русского и то, что выложу - нам комментировать, то... имхо, бред получается... хоть для ПВ, хоть для СМ

Меня не спрашивайте. Переводы - это не мое

[арве]

Так, чтобы эти самые интересные выдержки перевести, надо все перевести, дабы понять - что же там самое интересное (как известно, чтобы продать что-нибудь ненужное нужно купить что-нибудь ненужное, увы ). Но на самом деле - там стооолько по объему. Да еще ведь - и актеры есть. Да еще - без текстов, а только на прослушке - съемочная группа, в том числе мой обожаемый Шор (). Короче, все это перевести - так и до римейка ВК или даже до экранизации Сильма только-только успеем ... Ну может быть я этот пессимизм развела, ориентируясь на свой "замечательный" английский, а вам - как орешки погрызть...

[арве]

А сакральные знания... ишь, размечталась

[Sange]

арве, я читаю быстро и понимаю сходу (т.е. в голове у меня не выстраивается русского перевода). Если встречаются незнакомые слова, то чаще всего они не влияют на общий смысл пассажа, так что в словарь можно и не лезть .

[арве]

Sange, .

[Riba]

Сообщение от Sange

но сакральным знаниям не делятся))) ибо его нет

Дык!

было бы над чем

Мы ничё не понимаем!

Сообщение от арве

Так, чтобы эти самые интересные выдержки перевести, надо все перевести, дабы понять - что же там самое интересное (как известно, чтобы продать что-нибудь ненужное нужно купить что-нибудь ненужное, увы ).

Можно сначала прочитать, а потом самое вкусное перевести.

Сообщение от арве

А сакральные знания... ишь, размечталась

Знание-жизнь!

[Hellga]

Извините что не отвечаю - голова разламывается а еще работу работать... думаю, что комментарии лучше выложить в том треде в Проектах, чтобы было, а обсуждать можно и здесь будет. Я выжимку могу сделать по тому же принципу, что с Хоббитом - тем более, в ВК будет меньше, потому что там фильмы менее ядреные сами по себе.

Надеюсь, к вечеру голова пройдет, а то иначе йок сегодня, а не БПВ. Сидела на совещании, все нормально было, и вдруг через час после обеда каак началось...

[Riba]

Сообщение от Hellga

Извините что не отвечаю - голова разламывается а еще работу работать... думаю, что комментарии лучше выложить в том треде в Проектах, чтобы было, а обсуждать можно и здесь будет. Я выжимку могу сделать по тому же принципу, что с Хоббитом - тем более, в ВК будет меньше, потому что там фильмы менее ядреные сами по себе.

Надеюсь, к вечеру голова пройдет, а то иначе йок сегодня, а не БПВ. Сидела на совещании, все нормально было, и вдруг через час после обеда каак началось...

Ты этсамое, не торопись. Не надо класться на алтарь. Куда нам торопиться? Выздоравливай голову и работай работу, а там уж как получится.

[арве]

Hellga, ты не торопись. Подождем мы твои комменты, главное - выздоравливай и не перегружай свою голову, она и тебе, и нам еще пригодится

А комменты к ВК - как выкладывать? Переводы, которые были - там и так выложены, ссыли на английские материалы - тоже. Правда, я не уверена, что на все и что эти ссыли не битые. И, главное - там это тема для ПЕРЕВОДА. А я-то переводить не собираюсь.

[арве]

Кажется, придумала. Надо все-таки на СМ завести тему - "Обсуждение аудикомментариев ВК". И потихоньку (по трекам-главам) их выкладывать. Режиссеры - английский, его перевод. Актеры - английский, его перевод. Если перевода нет - просить желающих перевести или хотя бы пересказать. Ну и самим - комментарить их комментарии. Правда это может надолго затянуться. Ну да как скажете, я-то преимущественно только выкладывать буду. Кстати, если известно, чей перевод, естественно указывать, с благодарностью. А если кому-то тот или иной кусок перевода покажется неверным или неточным - наверное тоже можно и об этом поспорговорить... Как-то так.

[Hellga]

Я пью эспрессо без сахара, не поможет - начну колёса глотать. Меня еще и малёк знобит, как бы не разболеться... было бы жутко обидно, потому что на следующей неделе праздник - День Благодарения, четыре дня отдыхаем. И мне самой невтерпеж, я этих комментариев уже 11 месяцев жду!

арве, ты про эту тему?

Тогда вот эта ссылка живая, по ней можно найти английский текст БК и ДК, так что нужно только к третьей части текст... можешь в ту же тему вложениями добавить, просто сказав что если кто-то еще хочет переводить, вот третья часть...

Я предпочту английский текст, я не очень доверяю переводам в сети, обычно перевирают много...

[Sange]

Хельга, не болей !

 

[арве]

Все так. Но... Жирное "НО". Там тема про перевод и для перевода. Не для обсуждения. Мы там ничего обсуждать не сможем. То есть интересно, чтобы я просто выложила то, чего нет? Так я это где угодно выложить смогу... Хоть даже и здесь.

[Hellga]

По ВК выложи пока сюда. Я прикручу голову на место и посмотрю комментарии - прикину, много ли там есть чего на предмет пообсуждать-поприкалываться. Если на десяток страниц - то это можно хоть здесь, хоть в Дэйле. А если на сотню - тогда нужен новый тред. В ПРоектах точно не нужно обсуждать, там можно выложить просто чтобы всем знать, где взять, когда все потеряется через сотню страниц трепа.

[арве]

Угумс.

По ВКБК. Режиссеры. Первые 6 перевел Сергей СВ (там это есть). Выложу только английский вариант.

Chapter 1 ~ "Prologue: One ring to rule them all..."
PJ: Hi, I'm Peter Jackson, the director, co-writer and -producer of the "Lord Of The Rings".
FW: Hi, I'm Fran. I have a writing credit on the film and a producing credit.
PB: Hi, I'm Philippa Boyens. I only have a writing credit on the film.
PJ: And we're up here in our office in Miramar, New Zealand, having a look at this movie, a little bit of a different version of the film than what you used to see in the theatres. This is the extended cut version, got a few new scenes, that none of you have seen before. So it'll be fun to talk about those.
I think, the beginning of the movie was probably the hardest thing both in terms of conceiving it and writing it and then, when we edited the film, it was really difficult. Everything else seemed simple in comparison.
PB: Very early on though you knew, you wanted something quite lyrical as the very, very opening thing and you knew very early on, that you wanted to open in black.
FW: When we did early drafts of the script, we attempted to write a prologue and it became so overstuffed with information and so over- burdened with its own enormity, that we eventually decided, we didn't need one.
PJ: And we shot obviously everything for the prologue, when we were doing the original photography, but then I remember that as we got into postproduction and cutting, we felt, that the prologue was possibly redundant and we developed an entirely different opening, which was more evolving around Hobbits and what Hobbits are.
FW: And so we left the prologue behind and we thought what ever information we haven't got, it can come out in Bagend with Gandalf and Frodo and he can speak to that and we wrote several different kitchen-scenes in Bagend with Gandalf throwing light on the events of the past.
PJ: And I remember, the decision to go back to revisit the idea of the prologue and to put the prologue back in happened, when we were about to leave New Zealand to fly to London to do the scoring.
FW: What happened was, we screened the movie for New Line and one of their key and mandatory notes was: 'You must have a prologue', which was for us (sort of) oh God we're back there again. It'd become a sort of hell for us and so we found ourselves in England recording the score with an Avid machine jammed into one of the rooms in the house. Our editor John Gilbert came over with a bunch of footage and it was up to us at that point to construct the prologue and this had to happen during the time, we were also doing the score. It was a big, a big strain. It was quite a hard thing.
PJ: And basically the exact cut, that's in the movie now, is what got down in London during that period of time.
I always had the idea of doing a big battle in the prologue. That was really one of the attractions and I looked at it in the sense of like the opening of a James-Bond-film, where, you know, they always have their prologue with some real "boost of the wall"-kind of action scene and I always loved that as a concept in film as a device it plugs you out of the world that you have been in that day.
You're now in a cinema in the hands of the filmmakers and suddenly you're being put into this incredible action sequence. You're giving no time to think, you've only just sat down to watch the film and there's all the stuff going on and then by the time, a prologue like that finishes, you're sort of totally in the hands of the filmmaker and I wanted to do something similar.
Obviously we're telling the story of the ring, but I thought a battle would be a great way to start and the story obviously gives us the battle with the last alliance, where Sauron is destroyed.
FW: Here was the place, the one place that we were going to demonstrate the depth of his power and if we fail to do that, then he really wasn't going to be very credible for three full movies. So we knew, it was very important, that we sell him as this terrible and omnipotent all powerful force.
PB: A lot of these images, you had in your mind right from your treatment, I remember the 90 page treatment. Nothing changed, not over 5 years.
PJ: Isildur is played by Harry Sinclair, who is a long term friend of ours. We've knowing Harry for 10 or 12 years. Harry himself is a director. He has directed 3 feature films.
PB: I think, if I remember rightly, you and Fran were trying to find the most corrupt and venal person you knew, wasn't it…
PJ: (lacht)
PB: … Pete and you thought about Harry.
PJ: Oh, yes - (caught it) in a second.
FW: The other thing, that was really hard about the prologue, was, from what point of view do you tell the story and I think in past attempts we told it through the point of view of Isildur solely or we tried to tell it from a kind of God's eye point of view. We tried all these different points of view, but in the end it wasn't until we came to understand, that the ring is in fact a protagonist in the story - in many ways it's an antagonist and that, what we should do is tell the prologue from the rings point of view.
It's who makes it, for what purpose, how they loose it, who it comes to and who it then passes to. That' the story of the prologue and when that became clear to us, it was a much easier thing to do.
PJ: The footage we added here does show the process of how the ring ultimately causes Isildur's death much clearer, then what was in the theatrical version.
The length of the prologue was always a little bit of a debate. Once we got to the point, that we knew a prologue would gonna be in the film, it was the very last stages of post production, then New Line started to impose rules on us, which they'd never done before. They started to say: "Well, you can have a prologue, but it's gonna be no longer than 2 minutes". And our prologue is actually 7,5 minutes. And it was really in a way, it was one of the biggest fights we ever had with the studio and it was strange, because it was the very last thing that happened before the film was finished. We've been making this movie for 3 or 4 years with a very good relationship and - needless to say - we won the battle, because we just felt, you know, you can't make a prologue like this with all this information in a 2-minute-length of time.
PB: And had, we did find in the process of writing the prologue, which was really valuable, is you can overload of course and one of those things that went in an overload in earlier drafts of the prologue was the excessive use of proper names straight from Tolkien, such as naming Narsil and such as naming the lance of Gil-Galad, in fact even naming Gil-Galad himself. It just was too much information and it wasn't really until Pete got in here in post, that you can feel the weight of just excessive information.
Ngila Dickon, our costume designer worked very hard, where ever there were descriptions of clothing made by Prof. Tolkien in any of his works, they were followed almost (?). If you look closely, you'll see that Bilbos vest does indeed have brass buttons, these brass buttons that famously pop off, when he tries to escape as told in 'The Hobbit'.
PJ: Oh, yes the red waistcoat with brass buttons. To make Ian Holm look younger, we attached, we glued some taps to the side of his necks and pulled his skin back underneath his wig to pull the wrinkles out, because obviously Bilbo Baggins as seen in the prologue is 60 years younger then we see him later on in Bagend.

 

[арве]

Далее - 2 глава.

Chapter 2 ~ "Concerning Hobbits"
FW: Initially we recorded the prologue, an early vision with Elijah, who was reading it as Frodo at the end of the journey, but when we heart it back we felt, that it didn’t seemed to be part of Frodo’s story. It was reflecting on things, that he could not have known about. And then we thought, possibly Gandalf would be a good person and I think we actually did a recording with him, but we came to Cate in the end, because of the agelessness of elves and the fact, that Elrond appears in the prologue.
He also speaks to it later in the film. It felt appropriate to us, that she would almost bookmark this trilogy by opening and closing it as she does at the end of part 3. We also liked the idea of using a female voice. She’s got such a great voice, a strong and powerful voice and we knew, that she would, she would use the language well.
PJ: One of the most significant changes from the theatrical version to this extended cut is the way, that we introduce the Hobbits and its particular Bilbo Baggins. At the time, that we thought, that we didn’t think, we would gonna have a prologue and we would gonna open the movie with the writing of Bilbo’s book and hearing his voice describing Hobbits.
Once we decided to go back to the concept of including the prologue and the prologue became 7 minutes long, then this sequence started to feel like – there was just too much, too much narration. To some degree that’s probably true, but it is such a delightful sequence, that I just felt that it deserved to be seen. And so, you know, for good or bad here it is on this extended cut.
Obviously it establishes the book, that Bilbo is writing, which we now see later in Rivendell and it makes some sense of dialogue between Gandalf and Bilbo, that happens later in the kitchen, when Bilbo says: ‘I would find somewhere quiet to finish my book’, because we’ll have obviously seen him writing his book here.
The Hobbit extras were a bunch of people from near Matamata in the North Island of New Zealand. We chose them for their looks, for their faces, for their sort of hobbity qualities. And obviously here we got to see a little bit more of the Hobbiton set that we built.
Here is Sean Astin’s introduction, which we just, it’s just, it’s really the only time, that we ever see him gardening, which is some strange, it’s obviously Sam Gamgee is a gardener and one of the things I guess, we missed a little bit is the concept of the fact, that he is a gardener, but we did have the shot in this early version of the opening.
I like the way in which, you know, the Hobbits and the society of Hobbiton and the essence of Hobbits is set up and we sort of were able to take the time to do that, where as in the theatrical version we had to sort of jump straight into it.

 

[арве]

Третья.

Chapter 3 ~ "The Shire"
PJ: This was a shot we did, when we were doing pick-ups. We felt, we hadn’t really got the ideal introduction for Frodo and we found this really pretty forest about an hours drive north of where we were based and we thought, that just this moment of Frodo reading a book under a tree would be a really great way to introduce his character.
PB: Was funny seeing him standing there after 4 months or so and he was standing there with his feet on, in costume with the hair on just laughing and laughing, that he was back being Frodo again.
PJ: This was a very important scene, because it’s the first time we see the size of Hobbits compared to a human or in this case a wizard – Gandalf – and we used very simple tricks for the scene. There is no computer special effect at all. We simply used a big Gandalf, an about 8 foot tall person called Paul, and a very small Frodo, a 4 foot high person called Kiran. That’s Paul catching, that’s Kiran being cuddled by Ian, that’s Paul cuddling Elijah and so just between, cutting between the big and small stand-ins, if you like big and small doubles, we were able to create the illusion – without any complicated tricks at all.
In this version of the opening the dialogue on the on the cart between Gandalf and Frodo is a little different. We just used different pieces of dialogue and we were able to establish the mystery of the ring a little bit more, the fact that, not so much the ring, we don’t know it’s the ring yet, but the fact, that Bilbo Baggins has been acting kind of strange, that was something, that we wanted to get a sense of the fact, that he’s, he’s got that unusual behavior going on, that we ultimately later find it’s the ring, but at this moment it’s concerning Frodo.
I know, one of the concerns, that Fran had, when we were contemplating this version for the theatrical release of the film was that, she was worried, that it would establish Bilbo as a slightly darker character, that … Bilbo is obviously a very loveable, cute Hobbit, but the fact, that we first see him introduced in this way, being a little bit weird that sort of, you know, acting in a slightly compulsive, unusual way and Fran was concerned, that would, it would just, it would not really, it would lead to expectations of who Bilbo was, that is not really true, that obviously he’s just having a strange little episode here, because of the way the ring is affecting him, but he is basically his usual loveable self. It’s possibly not the best way to introduce the character by seeing him in this, in this manner first. The shots here of Gandalf and Frodo talking were done after the original Hobbiton scenes were shot.
One of the difficult things with the beginning of the film was the fact that we have to talk about Bilbo, a character we don’t really know. We have to talk about the fact, that he’s leaving and there’s something strange going on and just the concept of setting (all that) stuff up was a little bit tricky.
PB: We don’t want to be too dark and too ominous too early, because there’s so much of that in the film. We wanted to show Frodo especially. That’s part of what we’re trying to do here, show this young boy, who has a very carefree life. We worked quite hard to do that.
PJ: Hobbiton is a location in Matamata in the North Island of New Zealand and we spent at least a year before we were due to shoot in building Hobbiton. The bridge is completely fabricated. It was built by the New Zealand Army out of polystyrene. The “Green Dragon”-Pub was just constructed at a side of a small lake.
The fireworks in the back of the cart were done by a computer. We just had the little smoke bombs going off and there are computer fuzzy effects.
(All of) our Hobbit extras were gathered from the local farming community of Matamata. We just looked for the best Hobbit faces we could, because we knew kind of what Hobbits should look like. They had to be slightly short and squat and have large eyes and round faces.
PB: Couple of those extras got married, did you know that?
PJ: No.
PB: They met on set and got married.
PJ: Oh, yes. This shot shows the size of the location. It was literally a huge area of land and probably at least a mile, 1,5 mile square, that we landscaped. All of the roads were built, the Hobbit holes were built, the trees – often the trees were planted, the gardens were planted, none of this existed.
It’s a lot of work going on for what’s relatively shot amount of screen time really, that we see the exterior of Hobbiton, but we just felt, that it just, you just had to sell it.

 

[арве]

Четвертая.

Chapter 4 ~ "Very Old Friends"
PJ: It couldn’t look artificial or fake in any way possible.
This shot here of Ian banging on the door was Ian’s very first shot in the film. This is his day 1. He just came off X-Men flowing to New Zealand January 2000 and this was the very first scene that we shot. He really hadn’t quite figure out Gandalf, but he was doing a pretty good job for his first day.
The Ian-Holm-shots were actually done inside a studio, from the location at Matamata. That’s Ian McKellen and then when you cut to Ian Holm we’re inside the studio. Andrew Lesnie our cinematographer did a brilliant job of matching the indoors and outdoors.
Now, some of the scale tricks in the film were done with very complicated matters and I wanted to really spend a lot of time on the shot here, where Ian McKellen and Ian Holm are together in the hallway and we shot them separately. Ian McKellen was against blue screen and the hat handover with the stick was the most tricky part of the shot, which was basically involving different sized hats, different sized sticks and blending the two together with a computer. It were (it’s) just a situation, where, if we did a few of these complicated shots, time consuming, difficult shots, I thought it would sell the concept of scale for the rest of the film.
Now, when Gandalf bangs his head here, that was actually a mistake, that Ian didn’t intend to do that. It wasn’t in our script. It was something that he did accidentally we decided to keep it in the film. Fortunately he kept acting, he didn’t stop. He thought it really well.
PB: He never stops. He always keeps going.
And here of course is Thorin Oakenshield’s map from “The Hobbit”. The map used by Bilbo and the company of dwarfs and Gandalf to find the secret door into the lonely mountain. There was a little bit of confusion as to what happened to Thorin’s map. We had it written in there, we had a note to check factually what happened to the map and the person we sat onto that was Henry Mortensen, Viggo Mortensen’s son was our research man, he went in there and double checked what happened to Thorin’s map and said: “Yes, no it survived.”
PJ: Thank heavens for Henry.
PB: Thank heavens for Henry.
One of the things I remember was before this project even got green lit, you had a wish list and the wish list for Bilbo Baggins was Sir Ian Holm.
PJ: Hm, hm.
PB: And I don’t think we saw anybody else as Bilbo. So it was just a dream come true watching him bring Bilbo to life.
PJ: This shot is actually not a computer shot. It looks like one, because we got the two actors in the same shot, but it’s done with forced perspective and the table, that Ian Holm is pouring on is a different sized table to what Ian McKellen is sitting on. It’s actually 5 or 6 feet. The table is split in half, chopped down in the middle the joint is hidden by all of the different objects that are on the table, but there is actually a 5 or 6 foot gap between the 2 halves of the table in that wide shot and the two actors are in the same room together, but they’re a lot more separated by distance then what appears on film and what you’re actually see is the appearance that one character is very small and one’s very big, and that’s simply because the small person is further away – it’s called forced perspective.
PB: I think I’m right in saying this was the first time, that Ian Holm and Ian McKellen had acted together in a film.
PJ: Yeah, they never worked together. They knew each other slightly, but they’ve never been in anything together and I think they had a lot of fun.
PB: They did.
PJ: They were great days, these days, cause they were both, in a way they were both, you know, really determined to make their scenes as special as they possibly could. They only had two or three scenes together and they wanted to make the most of them.
PB: I think one of the, if I remember rightly, Ian Holm did make the inquiry, don’t think Gandalf had been cast, when you approached him, and he did ask – one of the first questions was: ‘Who is playing Gandalf?’
PJ: The smoking scene is one that I thought I would have to fight for. I was sure at some stage, because it’s Hollywood, somebody would come to me and say: “You can’t show smoking in a film, it’s not politically correct.” And yet it’s my favorite scene, the smoke ship – I always wanted to have the smoke ship and I was gearing myself up for a hell of a fight, when the day came, when I was told to get rid of the smoking scene, but it never did.
PB: No.
PJ: Nobody ever breathed a word about it.
PB: In earlier drafts we actually had a running gag, that Gandalf had giving up smoking.

 

[арве]

Пятая.

Chapter 5 ~ "A Long Expected Party
PJ: A big scene like the Hobbit party is one of the scenes, where you gather your friends and family to come along to be extras. It’s a lot of fun, they get to wear funny clothes and wigs and it’s quite a few of our family involved in the scene. I know, that there’s a shot of Fran’s uncle Tom Leary – it’s there, it’s Fran’s uncle. And my cousin Joe pops up at some stage around here.
That’s Fran’s uncle Tom again shaking Ian Holm’s hand and I remember, this was a lot of fun to shoot this on this day, we shot this about 2 or 3 days and we needed 3 cameras so I got to operate one of the cameras. So a few of the shots of the dancing and the partying is actually me filming it, which is a lot of fun. I always loved operating cameras and I don’t do it quite as often as what I like.
PB: If you look very closely at the band, there’s (a several) shot, that you see Billy Boyd is actually playing bass guitar.
PJ: There is another little family cameo. The 2 Hobbit children, that you see there, are actually Fran and mine two children – the cutest Hobbits in Hobbiton.
PB: Originally it was 5 minutes longer than that of course.
PJ: Oh yes.
PB: Actually there is an interesting bit of trivia in here of in all 3 films every single actor was wigged except for one character and that was Billy Jackson, who had the perfect Hobbit hair and never had to be wigged, but everyone else you see is wearing a wig.
PJ: There is supposed to be 144 Hobbits at Bilbo’s party and I think due to budgetary constrains, so we had about a hundred.
PB: One gross.
PJ: Don’t count them too closely, cause you might find, that there’s a few missing.
PB: It was one gross of Hobbits.
PJ: All right.
PB: As Tolkien put it.
PJ: This is a little piece that got trimmed out of the theatrical version. It’s the return of the Sackville-Bagginses back into our story. After Bilbo says “Hi” to Mrs. Bracegirdle he just gets wind that his feared relatives are on the prowl trying to look for him. Yeah this sense of Bilbo’s paranoia at the fact this his relations are trying to get the house from under him is something that’s very humorous in the book, so we wanted to have a sense of it in the movie.
But what this also gives us, which we didn’t have in the theatrical version, is this little scene between Elijah and Ian Holm that in actual effect in the movie that go screened in the theatres the only time that Frodo and Bilbo actually connect is in the Rivendell scene much later. We managed to really, you know, to cut the movie for the theatres in a way that Bilbo and Frodo never actually shared a scene together at the beginning of the film, but one was shot and here it is.
It plays into the concept, that Bilbo knows, that he’s gonna be leaving. He wants to go away to finish his book and he just hasn’t had the courage to, to break the news to Frodo. It’s one of this typically English things, where you’re so skirt around the issue and never really confront it and he doesn’t know how to tell Frodo he’s gonna be leaving.
The gag with the firework dragon is one of those situations, where there was a mention of it in the book. I can’t remember quite, what the book says, but it wasn’t used in the same way, that we do it in the film. I don’t (think) Merry and Pippin were involved.
PB: No they don’t.
PJ: It, it did say something about a dragon, a firework dragon (that’s) going out of control or something in…
PB: It’s the first scene I’d write for you.
PJ: Yeah, and so it was fun to take this moments from the book and kind of develop them into something that has little bit more significance. PB: … and was doing more then 1 thing.
PJ: Yeah, we’re introducing Merry and Pippin. That’s what it was, which was doing great. And it’s also magic. You know, I didn’t want too much magic in the movie, because I don’t like magic in films, in fantasy films. I think it’s – but, you know, having a dragon like this, a firework dragon is a pretty cool thing.
My first introduction to “The Lord of the Rings” was when I saw the Ralph Bakshi cartoon film in 1978 and even though our movie is obviously is stylistically very different and the design is different, there is one shot, which I regard as my homage to the cartoon, cause it did inspire me to want to read the book, and that’s the shot of Proudfoot shouting “Proudfeet”, where I, I deliberately copied the angle, that Ralph Bakshi used, which I thought was brilliant.
If you look very closely in the wide-shots you’ll actually see that the cake is on fire. The candles sort of set fire to the polystyrene and even though the cameras kept rolling, the cake was slowly starting to burn like an inferno. But Ian Holm was doing such a great job, we just wanted to keep the shots going and it actually started to burn the entire cake down.
PB: So 111 candles were (due for?)
It was interesting, when we came to do some ADR on this, that Sir Ian Holm was absolutely brilliant at ADR and usually only requires one or two takes – ADR is additional dialogue recording. In this particular scene, where he played it slightly tipsy on the day, he could not ADR these lines and he just turned and said to us in the ADR-session: “Can you clean this up, I can’t redo it.”
PJ: We added a little bit of psychological intensity on this, that’s not really in the book. In the book the disappearance of Bilbo was like a total lark a really tricky (place) and we just wanted to show that the ring is actually having a little bit more of a potent effect on Bilbo and it’s starting to make him look a little odd.
 

[арве]

И, наконец, шестая (последняя переведенная).

Chapter 6 ~ "Farewell, dear Bilbo"
PB: And of course we made the decision early on that Frodo is suspicious of Bilbo leaving but has no idea that he is in fact going to do it, as opposed to the story in the book where Frodo was fully ? of Bilbo's plans and enjoys the joke.
PJ: We also had to drop the idea that is was Frodo's birthday as well as Bilbo's. Because often those things are just too complicated and confusing for what value you get from them.
PB: One of my favourite things in the book is that Hobbits give presents on their birthdays instead of receiving them and so, all sorts of little things that you would love to do but just stops the film dead if you turned? to do them. And on the wall if you look closely and you see two portraits which is Bilbo's parents. And if you look even closer you'll see they bear a striking resemblance to Peter Jackson and Fran Walsh.
PJ: This was a difficult shot because it's so long. If you just look at it, it just keeps going and going and going without cutting. And I wanted to do that deliberately. Again I wanted to spend a lot of time. This single shot took us an entire day to shoot because I really wanted to sell the idea again of Ian Holm and Ian McKellen being together and being different sizes. And I thought it was worth it because the shot's over a minute long, which means you're not spending the entire day doing an eight or nine seconds difficult shot, you're doing a minute long difficult shot so it makes the time worthwhile.
I think Ian Holm does this brilliantly. This is probably one of my favourite scenes in the entire film. I just think that you just can't imagine how difficult it is to sell the idea without making it look hamy? or cheesy. And he is just doing brilliant, brilliant work here.
PB: You see, Ian Holm played Frodo in the BBC radio-adaptation of the Lord of the Rings. He was very, very familiar with the world.
PJ: When you look at the scenes in Bag End, just forgetting the trick shots that have the two actors in the scenes at the same time... What you're seeing is actually two completely different sets. We built Bag End at two different sizes. So every time that you're seeing Ian Holm, you're looking at a Bag End which is large, which makes him look like he's the right size. And when you look at Ian McKellen you're seeing a much smaller Bag End, one in which we all had to bend over and stoop as we went on the door and we just simply- They were exactly the same, the books on the shelves were built two different scales, the candles, the candlesticks, the furniture was all manufactured two different sizes, they're exact replicates of each other except one of them is 33% smaller than the other.
I love this Bag End-set so much. It felt so comfortable that- When we finished shooting with it, it was due to be destroyed, as all of our sets are, they basically get broken up and jut? when the filming is finished. And I couldn't bear that to happen to Bag End, so I approached New Line and I said if I can pay for my own storage, can I keep the Bag End-set and they agreed. So I've got Bag End in storage and one day I'm gonna put it into the side of a hill and gonna actually make my own Hobbit-hole. Because it's just so comfortable.
It's an amazing experience to be in a house where everything is round. It's something like being in a womb. There's... sort of very, very peaceful and tranquil and something calming? about it, so I'm looking forward to one day being able to spend week-ends in Bag End.
PB: I thought this was conceptionally brilliant. I remember reading this again as was in your treatment, Peter, that the Ring doesn't just fall. It almost, it, he is..
PJ: Almost sticks to the palm of his hand...
PB: Sticks to his hand-
PJ: ... only reluctantly and then when the Ring lands, we wanted to put this big, heavy sound-effect on, so it goes 'thummb' like it weighs a hell of a lot more than it really should.
PB: This was so beautifully done, this scene, I believe. And it is one of those moments for a Tolkien-fan, someone who has read the book, where these two actors truly are Bilbo Baggins and Gandalf the Grey, I believe. And you wouldn't know that these two really didn't know each other that well.
The song is taken of course from the poem and the music, the tune was composed by Fran. She came up with it the last second.
 

Дальше начинается "целина". Я ее завтра выложу. Ну... или - не выложу, если скажешь, что не надо.

[Nelt]

Сообщение от Hellga

Я пью эспрессо без сахара, не поможет - начну колёса глотать. Меня еще и малёк знобит, как бы не разболеться... было бы жутко обидно, потому что на следующей неделе праздник - День Благодарения, четыре дня отдыхаем.

Хельга, не болей! У тебя низкое давление, что ты от мигрени кофе пьешь?

[Лора]

Я вот думаю. Надо мне забанить себе к чертям СМ, или себя на СМ, без разницы, а то сплошное разлитие желчи от него и никакого удовольствия.

[Hellga]

Сообщение от Лора

Я вот думаю. Надо мне забанить себе к чертям СМ, или себя на СМ, без разницы, а то сплошное разлитие желчи от него и никакого удовольствия.

Забань. Чесслово, помогает. Я как решила завязать - так даже читать теперь могу спокойно, только хихикаю на "мудрости".

Кажется, холодный воздух (у нас почти до нуля упала температура ) по дороге домой помог, так что сейчас сажусь за диск с комментариями.

[Riba]

Сообщение от Лора

Я вот думаю. Надо мне забанить себе к чертям СМ, или себя на СМ, без разницы, а то сплошное разлитие желчи от него и никакого удовольствия.

Да можно не банить и не баниться, а, "поднявшись над суетой", как Хельга делает, смотреть и похихикивать.

Сообщение от Hellga

Кажется, холодный воздух (у нас почти до нуля упала температура ) по дороге домой помог, так что сейчас сажусь за диск с комментариями.

Холодный свежий воздух - это то, что надо, и когда голова болит, да и когда общее состояние кислое - бодрит. Не болей!